[dawktah LucidGT]

Lucid has officially announced that the Air has received its range estimates from the EPA! The highest range went to the Air Dream Edition R has an EPA-estimated range of 520 miles!

Lucid Air Dream Edition Range (19" wheels)	520 miles	933 hp
Lucid Air Dream Edition Range (21" wheels)	481 miles	933 hp
Lucid Air Dream Edition Performance (19" wheels)	471 miles	1111 hp
Lucid Air Dream Edition Performance (21" wheels)	451 miles	1111 hp
Lucid Air Grand Touring (19" wheels)	516 miles	800 hp
Lucid Air Grand touring (21" wheels)	469 miles	800 hp

An absolute triumph of efficiency, Lucid Air achieves 520 miles of range.

There were luxury cars, then EVs, and now there’s Lucid — the new generation of luxury electric.

www.lucidmotors.com

The results are in, and Lucid Air Dream Edition R has exceeded expectations. With 520 miles on a single charge, it’s achieved a record-breaking official EPA range rating, making it the first electric car ever to breach 500 miles.* That bests the closest competitors by over 100 miles, and means you could go from Los Angeles to San Francisco without stopping.

“I’m delighted that our Lucid Air Dream Edition Range has been officially accredited with a range of 520 miles by the EPA, a number I believe to be a new record for any EV. Crucially, this landmark has been achieved by Lucid’s world-leading, in-house EV technology, not by simply installing an oversize battery pack,” said Peter Rawlinson, CEO and CTO, Lucid Group. “Our race-proven 900V battery and BMS technology, our miniaturized drive units, coupled with our Wunderbox technology endow Lucid Air with ultra-high efficiency, enabling it to travel more miles from less battery energy. The next generation EV has truly arrived!”


A new era of efficiency
Lucid Air was engineered with an obsessive focus on efficiency. Countless aspects of the car are centered around maximizing range, from its miniaturized, in-house designed powertrain to its aerodynamic shape that reduces drag at high speeds. In the end, 520 miles of range is more than a world record. It’s a paradigm shift of what’s possible.

“Improvements in efficiency will enable widespread mass adoption. We develop all our technology in-house, and we have a relentless focus on efficiency,” Peter added. “Our approach is based on the concept of ‘smart range,’ going incredible distance on a single charge, carrying the smallest possible battery packs.”

In the end, 520 miles of range is more than a world record. It’s a paradigm shift of what’s possible.

MotorTrend called it a mic drop
In an exclusive drive with MotorTrend, Lucid Air Dream Edition R cruised from Los Angeles up to San Francisco and back down to Lucid HQ in Newark — a 445-mile trip — with 72 miles to spare. And this was real-world testing, air conditioning on, pacing with the flow of traffic. The cruise control was set at a practical 67 mph. MotorTrend’s Jonny Lieberman put it this way: “Remember range anxiety? As with the internal combustion engine, it's a thing of the past.”

Multiple Lucid Air models have received their official EPA range ratings, including the Dream Edition Performance and Grand Touring versions on both 19” and 21” wheels. That positions Lucid Air models in the top six spots for overall EPA range ratings among all EVs as well as the highest MPGe ratings in the Large vehicle class. Official EPA ratings are available here.

EPA ratings at a glance

View attachment 495

Great news for the company but as I said in another post, I had no desire for the performance so went for the range and ordered an AGT instead of the Dream. Now the Dream R variant will top the AGT is a bit of a slap in the face. Its only 4 miles but the AGT that was once billed as having the highest range in the Lucid line up no longer does.

 

[hmp10]

Great news for the company but as I said in another post, I had no desire for the performance so went for the range and ordered an AGT instead of the Dream. Now the Dream R variant will top the AGT is a bit of a slap in the face. Its only 4 miles but the AGT that was once billed as having the highest range in the Lucid line up no longer does.

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll never notice the difference in range or performance. Remember that the Dream Edition R puts out "only" 670 hp in the two lowest driver settings which is where most people will do the vast majority of their driving. I suspect the GT does the same thing, thus the negligible difference in their EPA numbers.

And with the GT you'll have all the bells and whistles of the Dream, plus a wider choice of exterior and interior colors and, if you want the larger wheels, better-looking 21-inchers (imho).

 

[hmp10]

The other shoe has dropped. Lucid just updated its website and order configurator. Dream Edition buyers can now select the "P" or the "R" versions, and Zenith Red has been added to the exterior color choices.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll never notice the difference in range or performance. Remember that the Dream Edition R puts out "only" 670 hp in the two lowest driver settings which is where most people will do the vast majority of their driving. I suspect the GT does the same thing, thus the negligible difference in their EPA numbers.

And with the GT you'll have all the bells and whistles of the Dream, plus a wider choice of exterior and interior colors and, if you want the larger wheels, better-looking 21-inchers (imho).

Yeah, not worry, I was initially more concerned about 19 vs 21 at delivery since I am driving the car back from Millbrae, CA to Indianapolis, IN. Just seemed a bit of misleading details up to launch. We're going to surprise everyone with the R & P choices, but no never mind to the AGT future owners. NO thunder in that... It seems that the decision was made to make the Dream better at performance and range, instead of making the AGT best in range. I guess they didn't want to disappoint the Dream owners that the lowly AGT had better range.

 

[hmp10]

The EPA tests range on a dynamometer. The cars rack up significantly more miles on the dynamometer than their range rating. The raw mileage on the machine is multiplied by 0.7 to approximate the effects of real-world road conditions. For instance, in the FEV test the Air racked up 738 miles on the machine which turned out to be 517 miles with the reduction factor.

My point is this: The Dream R and the GT put well over 700 miles on a dynamometer. The very few miles difference between them could have easily been within the car-to-car variance any car will see between a motor or a battery pack. (It's been rumored for years that Tesla motors vary so much in output motor-to-motor that the motors used in the Performance Teslas were actually just main line production motors that were at the high end of the production line variance. I don't know if the Tesla rumors are true, but ICE cars have seen significant variance over the years between identical cars coming off the assembly line.)

My guess is that the 4-mile range difference from these tests were in the normal variance range and that the test could just as easily have gone the other way, with the GT edging out the Dream R on range. Unless your car runs out of juice around the corner from a charging station, you will never be in a real-world situation where the difference will matter one whit.

 

[hmp10]

There has been a lot of speculation on the internet that Lucid achieved the Dream Edition R range only by using a larger battery pack than in the Grand Touring. I had discounted those claims, but "Forbes Wheels" just published an article saying that it is, in fact, true and that Lucid is using a packs up to 118-kWh instead of the 113-kWh pack that was used last year in the FEV range test.

Range Record: Lucid Air Officially Breaks The 500-Mile EV Barrier

It’s official: The 500-mile barrier for EV range has been broken by California-based Lucid Motors, maker of the Lucid Air luxury electric sport sedan.

www.forbes.com

Here's the relevant language:

"Lucid uses the same cylindrical battery cell format as Tesla and equips its models with packs ranging up to 118 kilowatt-hours total capacity. The Tesla Model S Long Range uses an estimated 100-kWh battery pack while Mercedes said the EQS is equipped with a 107.8-kWh pack.

"Where Lucid excels is in the efficiency with which it transforms the electrons in the battery to power for driving the wheels.

"Despite its hefty horsepower and all-wheel drive, both big energy consumers, the Lucid Air Dream Range uses 27 kilowatt-hours of power per 100 miles. The Tesla Model S Long Range, in comparison, has been rated by the EPA at 28 kWh per 100 miles. Lucid Air’s least efficient model, the Dream Performance with 21-inch tires, is rated at 30 kWh/100 miles. The EPA’s least efficient rating at 48 kWh per 100 miles is held by Porsche’s $185,000 EV, the Taycan Turbo S."

I called Lucid Sales, and this information about a 118-kWh pack was news to them.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Strange you would put a larger battery pack in a limited edition vehicle. What is a 5kWh cell weight?

 

[hmp10]

Strange you would put a larger battery pack in a limited edition vehicle. What is a 5kWh cell weight?

Don't know. There are 300 cells per module, and 2170 batteries weight between 60-69 grams. Assuming 65 grams per cell, that would mean the batteries in a module weigh about 43 pounds. I have no idea how much weight the module structure, cooling, and cabling adds.

If they did add a module, I can't figure out where they put it. I've seen the skateboards at two Design Studios and have looked carefully over the LEAP platform illustrations Lucid published.

Forbes didn't give the source of their information, and I found it strange that Lucid Sales was surprised by this story. I'm wondering if Forbes was working off some of the speculation on the internet about how the efficiencies between the Air models could be sorted out and picked up a figure from there.

 

[jivor]

I imagine as more independent tests are reported, a clearer picture will emerge. Bjorn Nyland has a very detailed comparison of many of the existing BEVs; I would say he's is one to look out for in the future.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Don't know. There are 300 cells per module, and 2170 batteries weight between 60-69 grams. Assuming 65 grams per cell, that would mean the batteries in a module weigh about 43 pounds. I have no idea how much weight the module structure, cooling, and cabling adds.

I they did add a module, I can't figure out where they put it. I've seen the skateboards at two Design Studios and have looked carefully over the LEAP platform illustrations Lucid published.

Forbes didn't give the source of their information, and I found it strange that Lucid Sales was surprised by this story. I'm wondering if Forbes was working off some of the speculation on the internet about how the efficiencies between the Air models could be sorted out and picked up a figure from there.

Until proven otherwise I'm thinking it's all software.

 

[jivor]

The 100kWh pack from the Tesla Model S is approximately 1372lbs. Now Lucid uses the battery as a structural element, and so measuring weight is a dubious affair. We also know that Lucid has tried to maximize miniaturization both for weight and volume, so the actual values can't be accurately extrapolated at 113kWh.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

The 100kWh pack from the Tesla Model S is approximately 1372lbs. Now Lucid uses the battery as a structural element, and so measuring weight is a dubious affair. We also know that Lucid has tried to maximize miniaturization both for weight and volume, so the actual values can't be accurately extrapolated at 113kWh.

Originally dream was 1,080hp so increase to 1,111hp and decrease to 933 a change of 31 and 147 respectively. Given you can CHOOSE it's software. My question is did they create an entirely different software for dream edition?

I just feel it is a bait and switch. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That could have been left for next model year release.

 

[hmp10]

There's another factor in play. The original Dream Edition had a rear motor that is different from the motors used elsewhere throughout the line-up. It uses a special metallurgy, produces 15 more horsepower and a significantly larger, but unspecified, bump up in torque. (I got this information early this year from Zak Edson, Lucid's head of Retail Operations.) I have wondered if getting the Dream "P" up to 1,111 hp also involves putting that stronger motor on the front of the Dream as well as the rear . . . and/or if reducing the "R" to 933 hp involves using the standard motor at both ends of the Dream "R".

There are so many possible variables in play here -- motors, battery pack, software -- that we won't know anything for certain unless Lucid starts talking. I could tell from my call to Lucid Sales yesterday that they weren't hemming and hawing to deflect a question they were told not to answer, as I've seen that behavior from them on several occasions. They were genuinely surprised at the "Forbes" report of a larger battery pack.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

There's another factor in play. The original Dream Edition had a rear motor that is different from the motors used elsewhere throughout the line-up. It uses a special metallurgy, produces 15 more horsepower and a significantly larger, but unspecified, bump up in torque. (I got this information early this year from Zak Edson, Lucid's head of Retail Operations.) I have wondered if getting the Dream "P" up to 1,111 hp also involves putting that stronger motor on the front of the Dream as well as the rear . . . and/or if reducing the "R" to 933 hp involves using the standard motor at both ends of the Dream "R".

There are so many possible variables in play here -- motors, battery pack, software -- that we won't know anything for certain unless Lucid starts talking. I could tell from my call to Lucid Sales yesterday that they weren't hemming and hawing to deflect a question they were told not to answer, as I've seen that behavior from them on several occasions. They were genuinely surprised at the "Forbes" report of a larger battery pack.

Sure all these things are plausible that doesn't keep it from being a bait and switch. Here's definition from Wikipedia: The intention of the bait-and-switch is to encourage purchases of substituted goods, making consumers satisfied with the available stock offered. Originally, AGT had highest range and was advertised as such, now although still better than anything else, it's a substitute for not owning the Dream Edition. I get what they are doing. Dream Edition was advertised for its "performance." Just saying...

 

[hmp10]

A classic bait-and-switch usually is an effort upsell someone to a higher price point and/or to dump unwanted inventory onto a buyer who doesn't want it. As the Dream Edition has been sold out for some months, there is no effort here to upsell Grand Touring buyers to a Dream; and as Lucid has reservations on all the Dream Editions it intends to build, they are not trying to dump unwanted inventory.

Lucid has made it clear on its website and elsewhere that none of the specs were final, as engineering was proceeding on several aspects of the cars. A couple of months ago in an interview, Derek Jenkins said they were still tweaking the range and performance numbers.

The Grand Touring that was range tested by FEV last summer attained 517 miles of range. The Grand Touring EPA range is 516 miles -- virtually no different from what anyone thought they would be getting when they reserved that model. What has changed is that the Dream has been bifurcated with both higher and lower ranges now available to buyers of that model.

Even if your primary motive in opting for the GT over the Dream was to obtain the highest range possible instead of the most power, would you really want to pay a $30,000 premium just to get an extra 4 miles of EPA range?

The driving habits of the owner and the road and weather conditions are going to create vastly more differences in real-world range than which choice you might make between the Dream R and the GT.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Even if your primary motive in opting for the GT over the Dream was to obtain the highest range possible instead of the most power, would you really want to pay a $30,000 premium just to get an extra 4 miles of EPA range?

I made this point on another forum, we'll see how many Dream R Editions are delivered. As I said before, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[SDHacker]

A classic bait-and-switch usually is an effort upsell someone to a higher price point and/or to dump unwanted inventory onto a buyer who doesn't want it. As the Dream Edition has been sold out for some months, there is no effort here to upsell Grand Touring buyers to a Dream; and as Lucid has reservations on all the Dream Editions it intends to build, they are not trying to dump unwanted inventory.

Lucid has made it clear on its website and elsewhere that none of the specs were final, as engineering was proceeding on several aspects of the cars. A couple of months ago in an interview, Derek Jenkins said they were still tweaking the range and performance numbers.

The Grand Touring that was range tested by FEV last summer attained 517 miles of range. The Grand Touring EPA range is 516 miles -- virtually no different from what anyone thought they would be getting when they reserved that model. What has changed is that the Dream has been bifurcated with both higher and lower ranges now available to buyers of that model.

Even if your primary motive in opting for the GT over the Dream was to obtain the highest range possible instead of the most power, would you really want to pay a $30,000 premium just to get an extra 4 miles of EPA range?

The driving habits of the owner and the road and weather conditions are going to create vastly more differences in real-world range than which choice you might make between the Dream R and the GT.

They clearly believe they are being cheated and there is no moving them off that. They edit the wiki definition of "bait and switch" since the full definition didn't match what they wanted. Lucid is clearly unethical in wanting to give customers choices beyond what was originally described on their website. The specifications for the GT hasn't changed. What changed is the relative ranking in terms of range - the GT is no longer the highest range choice.

I can understand their frustration over the update to the dream if they wanted the dream but didn't want to suffer any range penalty compared to the GT so they "settled" for the GT when they would have reserved the dream if they had known the R was coming. Now, they can't reserve the dream. The mistake was thinking the descriptions and specifications of a vehicle still in development were immutable. They seem to have taken the description of the GT as the longest range trim as a promise.

Lucid is still changing labels (Dream Drive Pro vs dream drive L2/L3, Surreal Sound vs a sound system featuring Dolby Atmos). Does Lucid just have naming contests at work and the highest vote getter wins? Surreal Sound? Really?

Anyway, somebody at Lucid seems to be listening since they added more choices in color for the dream. As they get closer to production on Touring/Pure, are they going to add more options, tell us that certain functions on the GT/Dream are not available (like massage)? Improve their description of what comes standard? It would really help if they stated something like "all trim levels come with 12 way adjustable drivers seat with heat, ventilation, and massage".

I have a reservation for the Touring trim (glass roof option) but I'm keeping my options open for the EQE, A6 e-tron, and if Genesis ups their range (400 miles) compared to the 300 target Hyundai/Kia sets, I'd be open to what they might come out with.

 

[hmp10]

I've learned that I will not know exactly what I'm getting until my Dream Edition actually arrives. It's been no different with the Model S Plaid we recently got, with features and specs shifting right up until production started, and there have already been several updates in the first month we've had the car to change things such as suspension calibration and subwoofer controls. The active noise cancellation will supposedly also come through a software update.

When I spoke with Zak Edson early this year, he assured me Lucid would not be expanding the exterior color choices for the Dream Edition and gave me a reasonable explanation as to why that was so. But then, boom . . . along comes Zenith Red (to which I quickly switched).

Also, the beta cars that were sent to the early Design Studios had power-operated doors, but customers were told that early production cars would not have the feature as there were delays in resolving sensor issues with the vendor. I asked if the motors for the feature could be installed in the early cars with the seniors added later. I was told that would not be possible. Yet now I'm hearing from one of the Design Studios that the early cars will be built with the motors for power-operated doors, and the feature will be activated with a later software update. (This suggests to me that Lucid has figured out a way to use the B-pillar cameras as sensors once they write the software . . . but that's just a guess on my part.)

I'm certain that I'll be getting a cutting-edge powertrain with the Air. I'm hoping that it will have better build quality than a Tesla. I'm guessing what features it will have. That's just the way it's going to be until delivery.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I was a beta tester for the Cayenne Turbo. By the time I got rid of the second one, first was on lemon law, I had 45 pages of repair history. Hopefully, the delay and aiming for perfection pays off and this won't happen with AGT.

@SDHacker Do you think people will pay $30,000 more for only 4 more miles and 133hp? My salesperson when I discussed the Dream R beating out the AGT, suggested that. I surely will not.